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Post by Hida Tetsuko on Apr 29, 2017 9:55:22 GMT 10
This is part of my fictions for those who have been following, but I was wondering would this character work in the RPG? Ishiken-do, Void Shugenja, are rare outside the Phoenix but they happen.
i do plan to try and make him in builder, I would just like to get people's opinions.
I'm looking through the Void spells and I can see how valuable someone with this ability would be to the Unicorn, even the level one spells with travelling. And I may have to make a Void Shugenja as my next character.
I'm particularly lookimg at you Kiru, you fire chicken you. And maybe Jim.
EDIT: Changed it to Meishodo, as it made far more sense mechanics and storywise.
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Post by M'thack-kir on Apr 29, 2017 11:02:34 GMT 10
Typically, canon has it that any child who has the power of Void magic is given over and adopted into the Phoenix because nobody else can train them at all, and the Phoenix don't usually offer training where the student stays with their own clan. There are exceptions to this, but it's generally been for flavour and to make a shugenja in another faction cooler, overruling the logical monopoly and policy of the Phoenix. So yeah, sure, it can happen. I don't see the Phoenix allowing a Unicorn to stay Unicorn under their void tutelage unless the Phoenix were given the concession of access to studying meishodo, though, especially after the stupid friction had for so long between the two clans.
Finally, ishiken-do is the way of the ishiken/void-user. It is not the term for a good-user themselves, for they are Ishi/Ishiken.
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Post by Daigotsu Enshiro on Apr 29, 2017 11:03:14 GMT 10
There's nothing stopping you from taking Ishiken-Do. It used to require Phoenix, or that you become obligated to them. But now, not so much. Do keep in mind, though, that taking the advantage does not give you free void spells! Only the famed Isawa can really choose void in their starting scrolls.
Was considering making my Emerald Stars character an Ishiken, but I took Gentry instead.
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Post by Hida Tetsuko on Apr 29, 2017 11:28:50 GMT 10
Typically, canon has it that any child who has the power of Void magic is given over and adopted into the Phoenix because nobody else can train them at all, and the Phoenix don't usually offer training where the student stays with their own clan. There are exceptions to this, but it's generally been for flavour and to make a shugenja in another faction cooler, overruling the logical monopoly and policy of the Phoenix. So yeah, sure, it can happen. I don't see the Phoenix allowing a Unicorn to stay Unicorn under their void tutelage unless the Phoenix were given the concession of access to studying meishodo, though, especially after the stupid friction had for so long between the two clans. Finally, ishiken-do is the way of the ishiken/void-user. It is not the term for a good-user themselves, for they are Ishi/Ishiken. I don't see the Phoenix having anything to do with this guy. He was born/discovered right when Chinua was Clan Champion. He's not going to let a membe of his family become a fire chicken, particularly such a rare prize such as this! This was during the war though, when the Phoenix were behind their barriers. They probably didn't have a chance to do anything. Hida Kozan is a Void shugenja that I don't think ever went near near the Phoenix, so there are exceptions.
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Post by M'thack-kir on Apr 29, 2017 12:37:53 GMT 10
A) I SAID there were exceptions, and that they were exceptions mostly so the story team could have more interesting characters, meaning Kozan and Inuyama. B) there are two ways to be a trained ishiken: 1) you are the void mystic school, and therefore you want to hide your ishiken power; 2) you are trained by the Phoenix, because the Phoenix are the only ones with the resources and know-how to train them without causing explosions of a WOMD scale. Untrained ishi are more dangerous than trained ones.
Could be fascinating for a member of Chinua's own family to be born Ishi. I see them living to about the age of 6 and then killing everyone around them accidentally unless trained by a Phoenix sensei. And Chinua might hate their guts but she isn't an idiot by any means. So getting that training would involve the Phoenix allowing the kid to stay Unicorn under probably both of the following conditions, at a reasonable guess: an Isawa is taught the meishodo technique, and the Unicorn formally declare before the Throne that they will not engage in any war against the Phoenix for the next century.
Obviously ignore me—it's your fiction. That's just my perspective.
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Post by Hida Tetsuko on Apr 29, 2017 13:01:24 GMT 10
This all happened during the Onyx War, so I'm not sure exactly what contact was between the Unicorn and the Phoenix. I'll ask Sean (Ebisu), he might like the idea anyway.
And now I have time, I'll try and make him.
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Post by Shinjo Kailen on Apr 29, 2017 16:13:21 GMT 10
Ishi.... I have studied the issue :-) My initial concept for wc5 was an ishi and I'm currently experimenting with an Isawa trained ishi, a Soshi trained one and a void mystic. As far as the story goes, ishi are indeed rare. They mostly appear within the Isawa, the Tamori, the Asahina and the Soshi. Most of the times when an ishi is born, some of the rest of the ishi feel/see her through the void. So the Isawa rush to claim the tutelage of the young shugenja. Sometimes, though, the void for reasons of its own chooses to hide an ishi. I can see, depending on the political situation, a clan refusing to give away a child.I can also see the Isawa training one and for the right 'price' not making her a Ph. I'm not going to say anything about the dangers/difficulties of the above choices. Anything can happen. It is a game! Now.... As far as mechanics go. I'll go through some major adv and dis of every choice: Isawa trained: -Possible void affinity and Isawa tech for void spells. -Immediate access to void spells from the first rank. -Access to high level void spells when progressing in insight rank. That's not a real mechanic benefit, but personally if I gmed a game with a non Isawa trained ishi, I wouldn't allow access to all the void spells for reasons of lore. Trained in another shugenja school: Mechanically speaking I can only see the benefit of being trained in the Soshi shugenja school. Given the nature of the void spells, silent casting is GREAT! But, she will lack every benefit listed above for the Isawa. Void Mystic: -Practically silent casting. -You can cast every void spell up to your ir. -Saves points from advantages in character creation. -If you start with the ronin option 1, you lose no experience points. If you go for a true ronin, you lose 7xp in character creation. -In low ranks, you are no 'real' shugenja since your casting options are very limited. -No access to rank 6 void spells. Losing the prospect of surviving a long campaign and seeing your character being able to dematerialize a creature (rank 6 spells are that powerful) deprives the player of precious dreams -Touch of the void.... Such a cruel disadvantage. I hope, I haven't forgotten anything important. I just have to point out that if the character is meant for a story or a pbp, the void mystic can be very fun to rp. Given the completely different approach to magic with no scrolls or prayers involved, you can create your own personal approach as to how the character sees his connection to the element. I have followed an approach similar to Legion's visions for my void mystic. Ofc, this can happen with any ishi. They are all very fun to rp! Brace yourself for a wild journey down the paths of imagination as far as descriptions go
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Post by Hida Tetsuko on Apr 29, 2017 16:54:58 GMT 10
It's definitely going to to be Moto Death Priest. It is for a story, that part you can't change. Given it happens during the war when the Phoenix are behind their magical wards, I don't think they got the chance to do anything about it. There is the chance that he could have been born in the Colonies, that may make things a bit more open.
What I like about this is that it makes him extremely versatile. To the point when I introduced him in my story (he's the Moto that Harun meets at Shiro Mirumoto), Harun had no idea that he was a Shugenja, let alone a Death Priest. The guy wore a sword, a scimitar, he can fight. In fact, I didn't know he was going to be one until I talked with Vincent and we agreed there should be a Death Priest, and he was there. Making him Ishiken makes him that much special, and gives him connections to Big Wigs.
I started to make him, his Void spells actually go nicely with Earth as well can augment his Kenjutsu. Now to only find where he learned it from. He would have had two sensei, one for the Death Priest, one for learning Void Spells. Could the Unicorn have found some wandering Void mystic to teach himself.
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Post by Hida Tetsuko on Apr 29, 2017 17:36:55 GMT 10
Okay, here is my first attempt at a build. It is for a story, but I do like the idea of knowing what he's capable of.
Thoughts? Suggestions? I do normally build bushi, shugenja are complex.
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Post by Hida Tetsuko on Apr 29, 2017 18:04:46 GMT 10
I got it! I got a name from Sean that would be Majid's sensei! l5r.wikia.com/wiki/Iuchi_AbodanAccording to him, there were Unicorn Ishiken. And since Ishiken know when one has been born, getting him trained is no problem.
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Post by M'thack-kir on Apr 29, 2017 18:07:05 GMT 10
Keepers weren't necessarily shugenja of that element, though, and I don't remember seeing anything that suggested Abodan was an Ishi. That being said, I don't pay much attention to the Unicorn...
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Post by Hida Tetsuko on Apr 29, 2017 18:11:32 GMT 10
Here's what he said to me "In that case, as of the time of the Onyx War, the holder of the Book of the Void was a Death Priest. He was a water shugenja himself, but as he put it in one of the fictions, "my magic may be of water, but my soul is of the Void." He looks like my best bet.
Majid would likely be concealed at all costs from the Phoenix.
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Post by M'thack-kir on Apr 29, 2017 18:13:51 GMT 10
Again, by all means make things how you want, because it's your fanfic :3 I certainly agree that he is your best bet; it's just that he's not, until you decide to make him one, actually an Ishi. But you can, so it's cool.
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Post by Hida Tetsuko on Apr 29, 2017 18:15:10 GMT 10
Well, here's that little on him I can do what I like.
Any thoughts or suggestions on build?
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Post by M'thack-kir on Apr 29, 2017 18:19:02 GMT 10
Only two things would be that as avoid magic can't be importuned (there aren't void kami), and because importuning takes a few minutes, it's probably not worth getting as an emphasis for this character (that emphasis governs social rolls with kami, but very few shugenja ever take it, and it's not really worth the investment of 2 exp).
And if you can get rid of Touch of the Void, you should do it. It ruins soooo many aspects of Void spells, it's ridiculous. Emerald played a void mystic with that in a game I ran, and mechanically, his character was predominantly useless to the party.
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